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	<title>Comments on: What is free parking worth to you?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22</link>
	<description>The Continuing Story of a City</description>
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		<title>By: SF2OAK</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241686</link>
		<dc:creator>SF2OAK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Oct 2009 22:58:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241686</guid>
		<description>I believe the argument &quot;What is free parking worth to you&quot;  is false- it is not a trade off between parking and other services.  The city could choose to raise the money in other ways- how about another tax that citizens have to vote on (yes fat chance of it passing but wouldn&#039;t that be democratic?  Or other expenditures could be reduced leaving money for these expenditures which you have cited.

In the last string of posts which got horrendously long regarding the Michaan recall there were many who were sticklers regarding parking tickets.

Here is a clip from a recent Montclarion,&quot;... 
Indeed, a meter on 29th Street yielded the expected results: 15 minutes for 50 cents paid. But another meter registered 20 minutes for 50 cents. A meter nearby on 28th and Summit ran out 20 seconds early after three tries. The next meter took 25 cents but only registered two minutes and the time ran out 30 seconds early.

Farther down, at 24th Street, a meter leaning about a foot toward the ground took two quarters but provided only two minutes. &quot;Shake it real well and a &#039;fail&#039; sign will pop up,&quot; said Jack Perialas, who lives nearby. But the quarters were gone — a dilemma if motorists run out of change.&quot;

I wonder is that meter handicap accessible?  If the city is not going to give you a grace period shouldn&#039;t they be held to the same standard by providing accurate meters?

I have also complained about the absurd complaint procedure- I received a ticket in Dec 08, I believe it was issued in error and appealed that decision, now almost 11 months later they have denied my appeal citing no actual reason.  Of course I will appeal by mail again but the city demands you respond to them in 21 days, or the fines actually go up astronomically (it actually makes banks look kind) they double after 21 days and go up from there even.

To Oakie:

You are correct.  In fact the redevelopment agency is buying large tracts in order to put big box stores with free and ample parking.

I am copying your quote just so everybody sees it again.
Thomas Jefferson said that government should be frugal and wise. Our city government is neither.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the argument &#8220;What is free parking worth to you&#8221;  is false- it is not a trade off between parking and other services.  The city could choose to raise the money in other ways- how about another tax that citizens have to vote on (yes fat chance of it passing but wouldn&#8217;t that be democratic?  Or other expenditures could be reduced leaving money for these expenditures which you have cited.</p>
<p>In the last string of posts which got horrendously long regarding the Michaan recall there were many who were sticklers regarding parking tickets.</p>
<p>Here is a clip from a recent Montclarion,&#8221;&#8230;<br />
Indeed, a meter on 29th Street yielded the expected results: 15 minutes for 50 cents paid. But another meter registered 20 minutes for 50 cents. A meter nearby on 28th and Summit ran out 20 seconds early after three tries. The next meter took 25 cents but only registered two minutes and the time ran out 30 seconds early.</p>
<p>Farther down, at 24th Street, a meter leaning about a foot toward the ground took two quarters but provided only two minutes. &#8220;Shake it real well and a &#8216;fail&#8217; sign will pop up,&#8221; said Jack Perialas, who lives nearby. But the quarters were gone — a dilemma if motorists run out of change.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wonder is that meter handicap accessible?  If the city is not going to give you a grace period shouldn&#8217;t they be held to the same standard by providing accurate meters?</p>
<p>I have also complained about the absurd complaint procedure- I received a ticket in Dec 08, I believe it was issued in error and appealed that decision, now almost 11 months later they have denied my appeal citing no actual reason.  Of course I will appeal by mail again but the city demands you respond to them in 21 days, or the fines actually go up astronomically (it actually makes banks look kind) they double after 21 days and go up from there even.</p>
<p>To Oakie:</p>
<p>You are correct.  In fact the redevelopment agency is buying large tracts in order to put big box stores with free and ample parking.</p>
<p>I am copying your quote just so everybody sees it again.<br />
Thomas Jefferson said that government should be frugal and wise. Our city government is neither.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241496</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241496</guid>
		<description>Shoup&#039;s model, in simple terms, is that parking should be priced so that about 15% of the spots are empty at any given time. So if there are more empty spots than that, parking is priced too high, and should come down. Another way to think about it is that parking close to your destination, say downtown, should be priced higher because it is more convenient, and parking further away, upper Broadway, should be cheaper. Same strategy they use at a lot of event parking. In the current state, free, unlimited time parking in upper Broadway is likely cheaper for the city than meters, since they would not have collection and enforcement costs anymore.

I have not actually taken the train all the way to SFO, but my random observations in SF suggested that there were fair numbers of tourist types with luggage, and very few business looking types. But your cabbie could be right, although I am not sure how he knows either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shoup&#8217;s model, in simple terms, is that parking should be priced so that about 15% of the spots are empty at any given time. So if there are more empty spots than that, parking is priced too high, and should come down. Another way to think about it is that parking close to your destination, say downtown, should be priced higher because it is more convenient, and parking further away, upper Broadway, should be cheaper. Same strategy they use at a lot of event parking. In the current state, free, unlimited time parking in upper Broadway is likely cheaper for the city than meters, since they would not have collection and enforcement costs anymore.</p>
<p>I have not actually taken the train all the way to SFO, but my random observations in SF suggested that there were fair numbers of tourist types with luggage, and very few business looking types. But your cabbie could be right, although I am not sure how he knows either.</p>
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		<title>By: len raphael</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241494</link>
		<dc:creator>len raphael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:24:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241494</guid>
		<description>rbt, i asked my sample of one sf cabbie that question, and his response was that it was particularly the business traveler with briefcase and one carryone that had switched to using the sf bart, much less so the travelers with multiple pieces of luggage.

under shoup&#039;s theory, what would the reason be to reduce parking fees in areas where there is plenty of avail parking? doubt if it would have any effect on usage there? eg stretches of upper bway are empty now of parked cars and would continue to be empty if parking were free.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>rbt, i asked my sample of one sf cabbie that question, and his response was that it was particularly the business traveler with briefcase and one carryone that had switched to using the sf bart, much less so the travelers with multiple pieces of luggage.</p>
<p>under shoup&#8217;s theory, what would the reason be to reduce parking fees in areas where there is plenty of avail parking? doubt if it would have any effect on usage there? eg stretches of upper bway are empty now of parked cars and would continue to be empty if parking were free.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241492</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 06:04:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241492</guid>
		<description>len, I hadn&#039;t thought about it, but is the reason that the want an elevated OAC is so that people going to the airport don&#039;t actually have to see Oakland?

The business types flying out of OAK aren&#039;t taking BART, they are taking cabs, limos and driving. All far more time efficient, and when you are on an expense account, the cost doesn&#039;t matter. You see the same thing with BART to SFO, it isn&#039;t business types using it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>len, I hadn&#8217;t thought about it, but is the reason that the want an elevated OAC is so that people going to the airport don&#8217;t actually have to see Oakland?</p>
<p>The business types flying out of OAK aren&#8217;t taking BART, they are taking cabs, limos and driving. All far more time efficient, and when you are on an expense account, the cost doesn&#8217;t matter. You see the same thing with BART to SFO, it isn&#8217;t business types using it.</p>
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		<title>By: len raphael</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241491</link>
		<dc:creator>len raphael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:53:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241491</guid>
		<description>on the oac, was there ever a survey of potential customers re how likely they would ride a ground based system with a few stops vs the oac? was talking to an sf cabby yesterday who explained that he almost gets fares to the sf airport anymore because of a combo of the recession and the sf bart connector. 

as insanely cost ineffective the oac is, i can just picture typical suit with carry on bag clutched white knuckled tight as the bus stops in east o, with the commuter staring out the window and the residents of east o staring in. maybe the best solution is nothing until east o improves on its own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>on the oac, was there ever a survey of potential customers re how likely they would ride a ground based system with a few stops vs the oac? was talking to an sf cabby yesterday who explained that he almost gets fares to the sf airport anymore because of a combo of the recession and the sf bart connector. </p>
<p>as insanely cost ineffective the oac is, i can just picture typical suit with carry on bag clutched white knuckled tight as the bus stops in east o, with the commuter staring out the window and the residents of east o staring in. maybe the best solution is nothing until east o improves on its own.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241490</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:50:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241490</guid>
		<description>I found it almost ludacris that some members of council were saying that we shouldn&#039;t roll back parking hours or rates until we had completed a parking management study. I fully agree that the study should be done, but it should have been done before the rates/hours were increased. Now it is being used as nothing but an excuse continue to collect the fees for as long as possible. AS the traffic engineer mentioned, it would only take a week or so to collect the data from the kiosks to figure out what the parking occupancy is at different times of the day and in different locations. I suspect that DE is correct, when the study is actually completed, they will find out that parking is overpriced by Shoup&#039;s model is many areas of the city. Want to bet about cc reducing parking rates in those ares below the $2.00, or even lower if warranted? 

Any business would have been monitoring from the day the meter rates were increased to see if revenue was tracking to expectations. This is one of the very first things that has to be done to see if the meters are priced correctly, and is needed for the report in the fall that was requested by cc back in June about the impacts of the rate increases. There is no indication that city staff is doing any such thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I found it almost ludacris that some members of council were saying that we shouldn&#8217;t roll back parking hours or rates until we had completed a parking management study. I fully agree that the study should be done, but it should have been done before the rates/hours were increased. Now it is being used as nothing but an excuse continue to collect the fees for as long as possible. AS the traffic engineer mentioned, it would only take a week or so to collect the data from the kiosks to figure out what the parking occupancy is at different times of the day and in different locations. I suspect that DE is correct, when the study is actually completed, they will find out that parking is overpriced by Shoup&#8217;s model is many areas of the city. Want to bet about cc reducing parking rates in those ares below the $2.00, or even lower if warranted? </p>
<p>Any business would have been monitoring from the day the meter rates were increased to see if revenue was tracking to expectations. This is one of the very first things that has to be done to see if the meters are priced correctly, and is needed for the report in the fall that was requested by cc back in June about the impacts of the rate increases. There is no indication that city staff is doing any such thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241489</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 05:35:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241489</guid>
		<description>dto, your suggestion of using the possibly increased parking revenue identified by the cc members not to replace a revenue decrease from rolling back the meters but to fund something totally unrelated is symptomatic of some of the reasons that large segments of the population of Oakland are highly cynical of city government. I think that V made a somewhat similar sugggestion of using the revenue for other purposes. In good faith, members of the business community came up with suggestions to try and back fill the loss of revenue and are you now thinking that it is totally appropriate to take (steal) that money from drivers and use it to fund some other pet projects. With that sort of attitude from you, V, and I am sure many others, why do you think that we don&#039;t trust the council.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dto, your suggestion of using the possibly increased parking revenue identified by the cc members not to replace a revenue decrease from rolling back the meters but to fund something totally unrelated is symptomatic of some of the reasons that large segments of the population of Oakland are highly cynical of city government. I think that V made a somewhat similar sugggestion of using the revenue for other purposes. In good faith, members of the business community came up with suggestions to try and back fill the loss of revenue and are you now thinking that it is totally appropriate to take (steal) that money from drivers and use it to fund some other pet projects. With that sort of attitude from you, V, and I am sure many others, why do you think that we don&#8217;t trust the council.</p>
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		<title>By: Drunk Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241488</link>
		<dc:creator>Drunk Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241488</guid>
		<description>If Oakland follows Dr. Shoup&#039;s parking methods (which it should), then the correct course of action is reduction of parking fees.

There are two key components in Shoup&#039;s methodology:
1. Parking revenue is returned to the business district
2. Parking fees are set at market price level to keep regular turnover of parking slots

The city didn&#039;t do #1. Council made clear the purpose of the increase was to fund programs completely unrelated to the needs of merchants in the district.

With regard to #2, it isn&#039;t clear that a parking shortgage even exists. At least, that has been my experience in the admitedly few times I drive there (particularly during the hours in question).

Finally, it is never a good idea to use the municipal court system as a means of revenue enhancement. When council says they intend to raise parking fees, they aren&#039;t talking about $2/hr meter revenue (which doesn&#039;t even cover costs of collection). They mean parking fines and even more overzealous enforcement. There is an inherent conflict of interest when meter maids operate purely out of profit motive, instead of facilitating the flow of traffic.

Ultimately, if overzealous enforcement drives out established business, that doesn&#039;t help anyone -- esp. if it drives business out to parking malls where the only traffic patrols are rent-a-cops making sure patron cars aren&#039;t vandalized.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Oakland follows Dr. Shoup&#8217;s parking methods (which it should), then the correct course of action is reduction of parking fees.</p>
<p>There are two key components in Shoup&#8217;s methodology:<br />
1. Parking revenue is returned to the business district<br />
2. Parking fees are set at market price level to keep regular turnover of parking slots</p>
<p>The city didn&#8217;t do #1. Council made clear the purpose of the increase was to fund programs completely unrelated to the needs of merchants in the district.</p>
<p>With regard to #2, it isn&#8217;t clear that a parking shortgage even exists. At least, that has been my experience in the admitedly few times I drive there (particularly during the hours in question).</p>
<p>Finally, it is never a good idea to use the municipal court system as a means of revenue enhancement. When council says they intend to raise parking fees, they aren&#8217;t talking about $2/hr meter revenue (which doesn&#8217;t even cover costs of collection). They mean parking fines and even more overzealous enforcement. There is an inherent conflict of interest when meter maids operate purely out of profit motive, instead of facilitating the flow of traffic.</p>
<p>Ultimately, if overzealous enforcement drives out established business, that doesn&#8217;t help anyone &#8212; esp. if it drives business out to parking malls where the only traffic patrols are rent-a-cops making sure patron cars aren&#8217;t vandalized.</p>
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		<title>By: len raphael</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241484</link>
		<dc:creator>len raphael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:18:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241484</guid>
		<description>funny to hear the cc member (Pat K?)  complain about the speed and enthusiasm with which the Parking Enforcement people took their marching orders to raise fees/fines. what were they thinking Parking people would do when their fellow employees are getting laid off or furloughed, and when the Parking dept also has a chance to increase its own resources.

-len raphael
temescal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>funny to hear the cc member (Pat K?)  complain about the speed and enthusiasm with which the Parking Enforcement people took their marching orders to raise fees/fines. what were they thinking Parking people would do when their fellow employees are getting laid off or furloughed, and when the Parking dept also has a chance to increase its own resources.</p>
<p>-len raphael<br />
temescal</p>
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		<title>By: len raphael</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/what-is-free-parking-worth-to-you/2009-09-22#comment-241481</link>
		<dc:creator>len raphael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 02:00:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3690#comment-241481</guid>
		<description>jr, yup there are shared qualities  to the health care town  hall catfights.  but where you see only the negative aspects of the protesters at both types of meetings, i  see there are also legitimate policy differences and populist resentment at having legislation pushed thru without adequate public discussion and disclosure and hard as it might be an extrodinary attempt effort to reach consensus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jr, yup there are shared qualities  to the health care town  hall catfights.  but where you see only the negative aspects of the protesters at both types of meetings, i  see there are also legitimate policy differences and populist resentment at having legislation pushed thru without adequate public discussion and disclosure and hard as it might be an extrodinary attempt effort to reach consensus.</p>
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