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	<title>Comments on: Center 21 lands a tenant! Life gets slightly easier for Mosswood area dog owners.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09</link>
	<description>The Continuing Story of a City</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 21:06:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: shakeel</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-37724</link>
		<dc:creator>shakeel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-37724</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve worked in the Shaw Plaza/Center 21 area for almost 9 years, so I&#039;ve seen that area change quite a bit.  The shiny new miami vice looking building replaced the old Bermuda Building, which had been abandoned since Loma Prieta (or so I heard), and was famous for being a pigeon sanctuary and losing bricks off it&#039;s facade after storms (the sidewalk around the perimeter of the building had to be closed so pedestrians wouldn&#039;t get brained).  I used to get a kick out of watching the local hawks hunt pigeons above and around the 

Shaw Plaza, however, has remained pretty much unchanged.  I see an DIY-looking crew banging away inside that potentially very cool corner unit every once in a while.  I&#039;ve managed to sneak a few glances in there, and recently it looked like they were reframing the interior and redoing the floors.  It&#039;s no where near being ready, probably another 4-5 years at the current rate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve worked in the Shaw Plaza/Center 21 area for almost 9 years, so I&#8217;ve seen that area change quite a bit.  The shiny new miami vice looking building replaced the old Bermuda Building, which had been abandoned since Loma Prieta (or so I heard), and was famous for being a pigeon sanctuary and losing bricks off it&#8217;s facade after storms (the sidewalk around the perimeter of the building had to be closed so pedestrians wouldn&#8217;t get brained).  I used to get a kick out of watching the local hawks hunt pigeons above and around the </p>
<p>Shaw Plaza, however, has remained pretty much unchanged.  I see an DIY-looking crew banging away inside that potentially very cool corner unit every once in a while.  I&#8217;ve managed to sneak a few glances in there, and recently it looked like they were reframing the interior and redoing the floors.  It&#8217;s no where near being ready, probably another 4-5 years at the current rate.</p>
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		<title>By: Navigator</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-36775</link>
		<dc:creator>Navigator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-36775</guid>
		<description>Signature Properties at Broadway Grand, or the owners of the new 21 Franklin Building, should buy Shaw Plaza, fix it up, and lease it.  Putting that blighted property to good use would help both those developments tremendously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Signature Properties at Broadway Grand, or the owners of the new 21 Franklin Building, should buy Shaw Plaza, fix it up, and lease it.  Putting that blighted property to good use would help both those developments tremendously.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-36652</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 18:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-36652</guid>
		<description>I think it may be more of a cultural thing.  In Europe, someone arrested for public intoxication may be more likely and accept the situation for what it was.  In the US, it would probably turn into a lawsuit against the city, the police officer, the bar, the alcohol producer, a 2-part Jerry Springer special and cries of &quot;racial dimension&quot;.  I don&#039;t think it is fully definable from a legal standpoint, as it relies on a qualitative assessment.  So from a US police officer&#039;s standpoint, unless there is apparent imminent harm, it is probably easier to ignore the situation rather than act.  Purely conjecture, but it seems possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it may be more of a cultural thing.  In Europe, someone arrested for public intoxication may be more likely and accept the situation for what it was.  In the US, it would probably turn into a lawsuit against the city, the police officer, the bar, the alcohol producer, a 2-part Jerry Springer special and cries of &#8220;racial dimension&#8221;.  I don&#8217;t think it is fully definable from a legal standpoint, as it relies on a qualitative assessment.  So from a US police officer&#8217;s standpoint, unless there is apparent imminent harm, it is probably easier to ignore the situation rather than act.  Purely conjecture, but it seems possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Allstadt</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-36622</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Allstadt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-36622</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Patrick.  I said they were complicated issues.  Massive tangent.  Slippery slopes.  Again, it&#039;s the principle of personal accountability versus legislating morality in broad strokes.  

Maybe the breathalyzer is just the evidence clincher, the initiator to a bust would just be somebody acting like a drunk jackass.  I gotta look up how the rules are written in Europe.  Surely the Germans or the Swiss, being as detail oriented as they are, have managed to create something in writing that says when you cross the line that separates wine-sipping-picnicker from pain-in-the-ass.  If I know where the line is, surely it can be put in writing.  

What it all boils down to is that we need to have an active pro-fun agenda.  Perhaps we could start the crusade for public consumption with a big toast at city hall plaza...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Patrick.  I said they were complicated issues.  Massive tangent.  Slippery slopes.  Again, it&#8217;s the principle of personal accountability versus legislating morality in broad strokes.  </p>
<p>Maybe the breathalyzer is just the evidence clincher, the initiator to a bust would just be somebody acting like a drunk jackass.  I gotta look up how the rules are written in Europe.  Surely the Germans or the Swiss, being as detail oriented as they are, have managed to create something in writing that says when you cross the line that separates wine-sipping-picnicker from pain-in-the-ass.  If I know where the line is, surely it can be put in writing.  </p>
<p>What it all boils down to is that we need to have an active pro-fun agenda.  Perhaps we could start the crusade for public consumption with a big toast at city hall plaza&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-36448</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-36448</guid>
		<description>I never said I disagreed with a woman&#039;s right to do what they want with their body, only a government&#039;s right to decide what IS and ISN&#039;T exploitive.  I suppose the real question is more of what a woman chooses vs. what a woman believes they have no choice in.  As a man, I should probably leave the argument to females.

OK, loudness at 50 feet.  What if a someone sits down 20 feet from me...who protects my &quot;I&#039;ve got dibs&quot; space?  I&#039;m picturing OPD in the park with a tape measure.  Oops!  You&#039;re at 48.3 feet!

Breathalyzer? I&#039;ve met many a person with one drink in their system who acts like a complete asswipe vs. a professional drunk who is entertaining the room.  Which one is the public nuisance?  The breathalyzer would indict the professional drunk.  But to whom would the police administer the breathalyzer and &quot;win&quot;?  I suppose we can legislate using the &quot;protecting one against themselves&quot; argument, but that is kind of like strippers.

Fully agreed on enjoying a perfectly legal beverage in a public space.  Consumption laws are definitely remnants of prohibition, though there is nothing progressive about those laws (DHL recently pulled out of shipping alcohol to the US because of our patchwork system).  As I am in the wine biz, I deal with these archaic laws on a daily basis.  Most alcohol laws revolve around the collection of taxes; new laws are promulgated to protect children and family values (distance laws from schools, churches, etc.).  So much for the separation of church and state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I never said I disagreed with a woman&#8217;s right to do what they want with their body, only a government&#8217;s right to decide what IS and ISN&#8217;T exploitive.  I suppose the real question is more of what a woman chooses vs. what a woman believes they have no choice in.  As a man, I should probably leave the argument to females.</p>
<p>OK, loudness at 50 feet.  What if a someone sits down 20 feet from me&#8230;who protects my &#8220;I&#8217;ve got dibs&#8221; space?  I&#8217;m picturing OPD in the park with a tape measure.  Oops!  You&#8217;re at 48.3 feet!</p>
<p>Breathalyzer? I&#8217;ve met many a person with one drink in their system who acts like a complete asswipe vs. a professional drunk who is entertaining the room.  Which one is the public nuisance?  The breathalyzer would indict the professional drunk.  But to whom would the police administer the breathalyzer and &#8220;win&#8221;?  I suppose we can legislate using the &#8220;protecting one against themselves&#8221; argument, but that is kind of like strippers.</p>
<p>Fully agreed on enjoying a perfectly legal beverage in a public space.  Consumption laws are definitely remnants of prohibition, though there is nothing progressive about those laws (DHL recently pulled out of shipping alcohol to the US because of our patchwork system).  As I am in the wine biz, I deal with these archaic laws on a daily basis.  Most alcohol laws revolve around the collection of taxes; new laws are promulgated to protect children and family values (distance laws from schools, churches, etc.).  So much for the separation of church and state.</p>
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		<title>By: oaklandhappenings</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-36443</link>
		<dc:creator>oaklandhappenings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:43:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-36443</guid>
		<description>V, I am also really happy and relieved about Center 21 getting a tenant.  It&#039;s about frickin&#039; time!  What do you think this means for 1100 Broadway and its future?  The last that I heard, SKS is STILL waiting for an anchor tenant, before any building gets done.  I really like the look of this building from the renderings, even if it does dwarf the old key system building that will be adjacent to it.  C&#039;mon, SKS, be optimistic, or just build it, and they will come...please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>V, I am also really happy and relieved about Center 21 getting a tenant.  It&#8217;s about frickin&#8217; time!  What do you think this means for 1100 Broadway and its future?  The last that I heard, SKS is STILL waiting for an anchor tenant, before any building gets done.  I really like the look of this building from the renderings, even if it does dwarf the old key system building that will be adjacent to it.  C&#8217;mon, SKS, be optimistic, or just build it, and they will come&#8230;please?</p>
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		<title>By: Max Allstadt</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-36434</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Allstadt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-36434</guid>
		<description>Well, I just listed a lot of my personal views about civil liberty in that rant.  It&#039;s tricky to draw lines, you&#039;re right.  But the principle is very very important.

About strip clubs: It&#039;s hypocritical to say you support a woman&#039;s right to make decisions about her own body when it comes to abortion, but not stripping.  It&#039;s called sex-positive feminism, look it up everybody, it&#039;s a part of third-wave feminism, and most of our electeds are operating in a second-wave mindset.  The Lusty Lady, in SF, is unionized.  There are models for doing it right.  One is to ban stage fees.  At the O&#039;Farrell Theater, women pay a lot to dance, and have to make it up in tips.  Ban stage fees and the pressure to engage in prostitution goes down.  Not that this will ever happen in Oakland...

Loudness can be quantified by how far away an officer can hear the music.  Inaudible at 50 feet, perhaps.  Drunkenness... ever heard of a breathalyzer?  Isn&#039;t there one in every cop car?  The point is, if I want to have a picnic in the park with my girlfriend, and I want to bring a bottle of wine, and we walked there... why is that a problem?  Throughout Europe and Japan you can do this.  I think public consumption laws are a leftover from prohibition era namby-pamby progressivism.

Anyway.  A few defenses.  The principle is what matters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I just listed a lot of my personal views about civil liberty in that rant.  It&#8217;s tricky to draw lines, you&#8217;re right.  But the principle is very very important.</p>
<p>About strip clubs: It&#8217;s hypocritical to say you support a woman&#8217;s right to make decisions about her own body when it comes to abortion, but not stripping.  It&#8217;s called sex-positive feminism, look it up everybody, it&#8217;s a part of third-wave feminism, and most of our electeds are operating in a second-wave mindset.  The Lusty Lady, in SF, is unionized.  There are models for doing it right.  One is to ban stage fees.  At the O&#8217;Farrell Theater, women pay a lot to dance, and have to make it up in tips.  Ban stage fees and the pressure to engage in prostitution goes down.  Not that this will ever happen in Oakland&#8230;</p>
<p>Loudness can be quantified by how far away an officer can hear the music.  Inaudible at 50 feet, perhaps.  Drunkenness&#8230; ever heard of a breathalyzer?  Isn&#8217;t there one in every cop car?  The point is, if I want to have a picnic in the park with my girlfriend, and I want to bring a bottle of wine, and we walked there&#8230; why is that a problem?  Throughout Europe and Japan you can do this.  I think public consumption laws are a leftover from prohibition era namby-pamby progressivism.</p>
<p>Anyway.  A few defenses.  The principle is what matters.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-36429</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 04:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-36429</guid>
		<description>I did not mean to suggest that dog excrement was the specific reason for the law; it just happened to be the first thing that came to my mind.  However, I would argue that people *may* be more likely to rationalize leaving a pile of poo under a bush or on a grassy knoll as a back-to-nature, fertilizer sort of thing, as opposed to a pile on a concrete sidewalk.   So, if not that, what then?  An overreaction to the many pitbull attack stories of the late 90&#039;s?  An irrational fear of being licked to death?  Although I am a person that stops to give well-deserved belly scratches to dogs I meet on the street, I know several people who are terrified of dogs.  Whom shall we protect?  The rights of dogs vs. the rights of humans argument will never fly, but I think most people agree on the rights of humans to own dogs.  Hence, dog parks.

I agree with you Max, in principle, regarding the punishment of the many for the sins of the few.  I disagree, however, on certain salient points.  If a dog poops on the sidewalk, we have something clearly defined: either it&#039;s cleaned up or it isn&#039;t.  What is &quot;too drunk&quot; in public? It&#039;s a qualitative decision that forces a police officer to be cop, judge and jury. (I do completely agree that adults should be able to open a bottle of wine in the park, but I&#039;m forced to play devil&#039;s advocate).  Our city government has enacted laws against riding a bicycle on the sidewalk.  Why?  Craft a law that defines safely riding a bike on the sidewalk, add in a 20% margin of error, and I guarantee that law will state:  &quot;walk your bike when on a sidewalk&quot;.  Again, qualitative from any perspective.  What is &quot;too loud&quot;?  I hate gangsta rap, so too loud to me is &quot;loud enough to hear&quot;.  Is it fair for me to judge loudness based on what I like to listen to?  What if I were to approach a police officer, who is humming to a tune, and say &quot;that is too loud&quot;?  Who gets to decide?  Aren&#039;t all strip clubs exploitive?  What is the difference between exploitive and non-exploitive?  College-going white girls vs. a recent emigre trying to earn passage back to country X?  Who decides that?  What is junk food?  Apple juice and Hawaiian punch have almost identical sugar and caloric profiles.  But apple juice has 4% of the daily requirement of vitamin C, and Hawaiian Punch has 100%.  Shall we ban apple juice?   I get what you&#039;re saying, but it seems a bit populist.

The cabaret issue is completely different.  It is part of our country&#039;s vehement &quot;what about the children&quot; anti-adult sentiment.  To suggest that an adult venue (think alcohol-serving, not peep shows)  will automatically have negative impacts suggests prescience.  Our city government doesn&#039;t really have a grasp of what is going on right now, let alone what *could* happen.  THIS is perhaps one of the most irritating of all things to me.  In Europe, it seems, kids are groomed to be adults.  As well it should be, as we are adults for the majority of our lives.  Feel good measures like OO, while our schools are underfunded, are shocking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I did not mean to suggest that dog excrement was the specific reason for the law; it just happened to be the first thing that came to my mind.  However, I would argue that people *may* be more likely to rationalize leaving a pile of poo under a bush or on a grassy knoll as a back-to-nature, fertilizer sort of thing, as opposed to a pile on a concrete sidewalk.   So, if not that, what then?  An overreaction to the many pitbull attack stories of the late 90&#8242;s?  An irrational fear of being licked to death?  Although I am a person that stops to give well-deserved belly scratches to dogs I meet on the street, I know several people who are terrified of dogs.  Whom shall we protect?  The rights of dogs vs. the rights of humans argument will never fly, but I think most people agree on the rights of humans to own dogs.  Hence, dog parks.</p>
<p>I agree with you Max, in principle, regarding the punishment of the many for the sins of the few.  I disagree, however, on certain salient points.  If a dog poops on the sidewalk, we have something clearly defined: either it&#8217;s cleaned up or it isn&#8217;t.  What is &#8220;too drunk&#8221; in public? It&#8217;s a qualitative decision that forces a police officer to be cop, judge and jury. (I do completely agree that adults should be able to open a bottle of wine in the park, but I&#8217;m forced to play devil&#8217;s advocate).  Our city government has enacted laws against riding a bicycle on the sidewalk.  Why?  Craft a law that defines safely riding a bike on the sidewalk, add in a 20% margin of error, and I guarantee that law will state:  &#8220;walk your bike when on a sidewalk&#8221;.  Again, qualitative from any perspective.  What is &#8220;too loud&#8221;?  I hate gangsta rap, so too loud to me is &#8220;loud enough to hear&#8221;.  Is it fair for me to judge loudness based on what I like to listen to?  What if I were to approach a police officer, who is humming to a tune, and say &#8220;that is too loud&#8221;?  Who gets to decide?  Aren&#8217;t all strip clubs exploitive?  What is the difference between exploitive and non-exploitive?  College-going white girls vs. a recent emigre trying to earn passage back to country X?  Who decides that?  What is junk food?  Apple juice and Hawaiian punch have almost identical sugar and caloric profiles.  But apple juice has 4% of the daily requirement of vitamin C, and Hawaiian Punch has 100%.  Shall we ban apple juice?   I get what you&#8217;re saying, but it seems a bit populist.</p>
<p>The cabaret issue is completely different.  It is part of our country&#8217;s vehement &#8220;what about the children&#8221; anti-adult sentiment.  To suggest that an adult venue (think alcohol-serving, not peep shows)  will automatically have negative impacts suggests prescience.  Our city government doesn&#8217;t really have a grasp of what is going on right now, let alone what *could* happen.  THIS is perhaps one of the most irritating of all things to me.  In Europe, it seems, kids are groomed to be adults.  As well it should be, as we are adults for the majority of our lives.  Feel good measures like OO, while our schools are underfunded, are shocking.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-36423</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 03:42:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-36423</guid>
		<description>Max - please come to my neighborhood and scold the people who leave dog poo on the street.  I see so much when I am out walking my dog!  Oak Street between 4th and Embarcadero . . . It&#039;s all all over the walkways down by the water.  Bad citizenship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Max &#8211; please come to my neighborhood and scold the people who leave dog poo on the street.  I see so much when I am out walking my dog!  Oak Street between 4th and Embarcadero . . . It&#8217;s all all over the walkways down by the water.  Bad citizenship.</p>
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		<title>By: Max Allstadt</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/center-21-lands-a-tenant-life-gets-slightly-easier-for-mosswood-area-dog-owners/2008-12-09#comment-36384</link>
		<dc:creator>Max Allstadt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 01:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=1575#comment-36384</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not just widely obeyed, it&#039;s enforced by the public as well as the cops.  Most people are embarrassed to leave dogshit behind if anybody&#039;s looking.  I scold people when I see it.

As for the tie in between dog laws and bike laws, this goes back to one of my favorite principles: Don&#039;t punish the many for the sins of the few.

Fine for not cleaning up, not for having a dog.
Fine for being drunk in public, not for having a drink in public.
Fine for riding dangerously, whether in the street or on the sidewalk.
Fine for playing your stereo too loud in the park, not for playing your stereo quietly.
Ban exploitive, publicly visible strip clubs, not all strip clubs.
Discourage junk food laden convenience stores, not all convenience stores (we actually already do this to an extent).
Regulate the impact of cabarets, don&#039;t regulate all cabarets to the point where only the very wealthy can afford to start one.

Seriously, this town has a fun problem.  The beginning of the way out is to stop punishing the many when the few are to blame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not just widely obeyed, it&#8217;s enforced by the public as well as the cops.  Most people are embarrassed to leave dogshit behind if anybody&#8217;s looking.  I scold people when I see it.</p>
<p>As for the tie in between dog laws and bike laws, this goes back to one of my favorite principles: Don&#8217;t punish the many for the sins of the few.</p>
<p>Fine for not cleaning up, not for having a dog.<br />
Fine for being drunk in public, not for having a drink in public.<br />
Fine for riding dangerously, whether in the street or on the sidewalk.<br />
Fine for playing your stereo too loud in the park, not for playing your stereo quietly.<br />
Ban exploitive, publicly visible strip clubs, not all strip clubs.<br />
Discourage junk food laden convenience stores, not all convenience stores (we actually already do this to an extent).<br />
Regulate the impact of cabarets, don&#8217;t regulate all cabarets to the point where only the very wealthy can afford to start one.</p>
<p>Seriously, this town has a fun problem.  The beginning of the way out is to stop punishing the many when the few are to blame.</p>
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