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	<title>Comments on: AC Transit BRT project in jeopardy</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24</link>
	<description>The Continuing Story of a City</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 06 Jan 2012 21:06:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: david vartanoff</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241523</link>
		<dc:creator>david vartanoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 07:24:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241523</guid>
		<description>@ D E
As to the who cares about LOLs attitude, there really aren&#039;t many &quot;stops every frickin block&quot; except in areas of dense ridership--like downtown Oakland or Berkeley.  The real question is how many riders get on/ off at any given location.  As an instance, Webster (Berkeley) is only one block from Ashby.  Normally transit systems have stops where routes cross (Ashby) AND where major rider origins/destinations exist (Webster--Alta Bates and associated medical offices + Whole Foods.)   I would have merged these stops in the block South of Ashby rather than having the R skip Ashby, but instead many $$ have been spent to add bus shelters at all four stops.    So, no, I do not automatically support retaining all stops, but I look at whether they attract riders.  

downtown Berkeley is due for some makeover.  There is a downtown remodel plan in dscussion stage including perhaps closing some of Center Street along with the proposed boutique hotel, convention center, new University Art Museum/PFA.  Given the size of the potential project and the various entities involved maybe there might be money to do some of it better this time around without much from AC.   We aren&#039;t getting LRT, so I don&#039;t propose anything about same.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ D E<br />
As to the who cares about LOLs attitude, there really aren&#8217;t many &#8220;stops every frickin block&#8221; except in areas of dense ridership&#8211;like downtown Oakland or Berkeley.  The real question is how many riders get on/ off at any given location.  As an instance, Webster (Berkeley) is only one block from Ashby.  Normally transit systems have stops where routes cross (Ashby) AND where major rider origins/destinations exist (Webster&#8211;Alta Bates and associated medical offices + Whole Foods.)   I would have merged these stops in the block South of Ashby rather than having the R skip Ashby, but instead many $$ have been spent to add bus shelters at all four stops.    So, no, I do not automatically support retaining all stops, but I look at whether they attract riders.  </p>
<p>downtown Berkeley is due for some makeover.  There is a downtown remodel plan in dscussion stage including perhaps closing some of Center Street along with the proposed boutique hotel, convention center, new University Art Museum/PFA.  Given the size of the potential project and the various entities involved maybe there might be money to do some of it better this time around without much from AC.   We aren&#8217;t getting LRT, so I don&#8217;t propose anything about same.<br />
.</p>
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		<title>By: Drunk Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241522</link>
		<dc:creator>Drunk Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Sep 2009 05:51:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241522</guid>
		<description>David,
So let me get this straight. You say the BRT is too expensive, yet you propose: demolishing the downtown Berkeley BART rotunda, bulldozing all of Shattuck Ave, and building an LRT? 

As for merging the local and Rapid stops -- this is consistent with District policy not to have a bus stop every frickin block. A similar proposal is in the works for the 51. Yes, this will be inconvenient for little old ladies and the disabled, but it is also how modern bus transit systems operate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,<br />
So let me get this straight. You say the BRT is too expensive, yet you propose: demolishing the downtown Berkeley BART rotunda, bulldozing all of Shattuck Ave, and building an LRT? </p>
<p>As for merging the local and Rapid stops &#8212; this is consistent with District policy not to have a bus stop every frickin block. A similar proposal is in the works for the 51. Yes, this will be inconvenient for little old ladies and the disabled, but it is also how modern bus transit systems operate.</p>
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		<title>By: david vartanoff</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241520</link>
		<dc:creator>david vartanoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 22:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241520</guid>
		<description>@ dto510 and all,  as background, and perhaps better understanding of my POV.  I am well aware of the pitfalls of fudging operations out of capital funds.  The sad history of the still not running Second Avenue Subway in NYC is a caution for us all.  go here
 http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/historyindependentsubway.html
 and weep.  That said the 51 study does not sustain the comment about Ashby although that is a major irritant.  see page 20 here
  http://www.actransit.org/planning_focus/details.wu?item_id=50&amp;PHPSESSID=71683fd1c33f7cde7437eeee154404db

Much as we (riders) all know the College segment sucks, the ## in the chart show University to Shattuck Durant is worse.    The physics are that College has no lanes to grab unless we can sell rush hour no parking, University has a median.  
As to pining for rail, I will admit I love rail, but I use transit whatever the mode.   Certainly in my life I have ridden more miles on rubber tires than steel wheels.   On a recent trip to Chicago, I chose to use the Museum Express bus from the Loop to Science and Industry rather than the rail route, &#039;cause it was more convenient.   (And, FWIW, this mirrors getting from my old neighborhood to the Loop on a CTA express bus rather than taking the more expensive and less frequent train from the very same corner when I was a teen.)  
You are correct that the money wasted on freeways puts us in the bind of arguing over the scraps for transit funding.  That and the desire for a marquee project do not a good plan make.
The recent decision in the BRT policy group to abolish the local in favor of all Rapid service will  not increase ridership in my view--especially since, if recent history is any guide, the claimed 5 minute headways will never be funded.   MTC&#039;s relentless drive for &#039;shiny suburban aesthetic&#039; projects--OAC, the GHG enhancing Fourth Bore-- is not likely to change near term.  I see AC Transit as similar to what was happening in the late 50s when transit was being starved before the cement vendors discovered how much graft was available building things like BART and WMATA.  The latter, despite having overtaken every other system old or new except NYC is constantly behind on maintenance because operating funds are a year by year fight.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ dto510 and all,  as background, and perhaps better understanding of my POV.  I am well aware of the pitfalls of fudging operations out of capital funds.  The sad history of the still not running Second Avenue Subway in NYC is a caution for us all.  go here<br />
 <a href="http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/historyindependentsubway.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nycsubway.org/articles/historyindependentsubway.html</a><br />
 and weep.  That said the 51 study does not sustain the comment about Ashby although that is a major irritant.  see page 20 here<br />
  <a href="http://www.actransit.org/planning_focus/details.wu?item_id=50&#038;PHPSESSID=71683fd1c33f7cde7437eeee154404db" rel="nofollow">http://www.actransit.org/planning_focus/details.wu?item_id=50&#038;PHPSESSID=71683fd1c33f7cde7437eeee154404db</a></p>
<p>Much as we (riders) all know the College segment sucks, the ## in the chart show University to Shattuck Durant is worse.    The physics are that College has no lanes to grab unless we can sell rush hour no parking, University has a median.<br />
As to pining for rail, I will admit I love rail, but I use transit whatever the mode.   Certainly in my life I have ridden more miles on rubber tires than steel wheels.   On a recent trip to Chicago, I chose to use the Museum Express bus from the Loop to Science and Industry rather than the rail route, &#8217;cause it was more convenient.   (And, FWIW, this mirrors getting from my old neighborhood to the Loop on a CTA express bus rather than taking the more expensive and less frequent train from the very same corner when I was a teen.)<br />
You are correct that the money wasted on freeways puts us in the bind of arguing over the scraps for transit funding.  That and the desire for a marquee project do not a good plan make.<br />
The recent decision in the BRT policy group to abolish the local in favor of all Rapid service will  not increase ridership in my view&#8211;especially since, if recent history is any guide, the claimed 5 minute headways will never be funded.   MTC&#8217;s relentless drive for &#8216;shiny suburban aesthetic&#8217; projects&#8211;OAC, the GHG enhancing Fourth Bore&#8211; is not likely to change near term.  I see AC Transit as similar to what was happening in the late 50s when transit was being starved before the cement vendors discovered how much graft was available building things like BART and WMATA.  The latter, despite having overtaken every other system old or new except NYC is constantly behind on maintenance because operating funds are a year by year fight.</p>
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		<title>By: dto510</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241519</link>
		<dc:creator>dto510</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 19:24:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241519</guid>
		<description>DV - I agree that ACT should pursue signal preemption on College. But I think the 80% delay at traffic signals is mostly about ONE signal, at Ashby and College, that CalTrans controls, and uses to favor Ashby traffic over College traffic. I don&#039;t know whether they would be amenable to signal preemption there.

As for Light Rail, yes, people prefer light rail (though I think that&#039;s a shallow aesthetic preference that evaporates once people see how fast and convenient BRT is). The problem is that LRT is really, really expensive. Maybe if Alameda County didn&#039;t spend 90% of its transportation dollars on freeways and BART, LRT would be an option. But it&#039;s not.

I still don&#039;t see how the fact that people like unaffordable LRT, or that the 51 deserves improvements, are arguments against BRT on Telegraph / International. Certainly setting a precedent for abandoning transit improvements during an economic downturn will not help bring BRT (or LRT) anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DV &#8211; I agree that ACT should pursue signal preemption on College. But I think the 80% delay at traffic signals is mostly about ONE signal, at Ashby and College, that CalTrans controls, and uses to favor Ashby traffic over College traffic. I don&#8217;t know whether they would be amenable to signal preemption there.</p>
<p>As for Light Rail, yes, people prefer light rail (though I think that&#8217;s a shallow aesthetic preference that evaporates once people see how fast and convenient BRT is). The problem is that LRT is really, really expensive. Maybe if Alameda County didn&#8217;t spend 90% of its transportation dollars on freeways and BART, LRT would be an option. But it&#8217;s not.</p>
<p>I still don&#8217;t see how the fact that people like unaffordable LRT, or that the 51 deserves improvements, are arguments against BRT on Telegraph / International. Certainly setting a precedent for abandoning transit improvements during an economic downturn will not help bring BRT (or LRT) anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: david vartanoff</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241517</link>
		<dc:creator>david vartanoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 02:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241517</guid>
		<description>D E  The 51, if AC&#039;s study is to be believed, is delayed 80% by traffic signals.  Would that not lead one to believe traffic signals are the &quot;low hanging fruit&quot;?    If signal preempts only work in a very tight window, then better design is needed.   I long ago suggested to AC that at the very least they add prempt transponders to the non Rapid fleet so that any bus on equipped streets would benefit.  San Pablo, Shattuck in dntn Berkeley, Broadway, 11th, 12th prime examples.  Absolutely agree all routes would benefit from a thorough redo of downtown Berkeley.  I envision bulldozing the BART rotunda, straightening Shattuck (west) as the through bi directional street and taking the rest of the wide ROW Center to Allston for a real transit station.  THAT is where TVMs etc would be useful.  flattening the parking as far as Durant to make bus lanes there would also be highly useful--because so many buses pass through.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D E  The 51, if AC&#8217;s study is to be believed, is delayed 80% by traffic signals.  Would that not lead one to believe traffic signals are the &#8220;low hanging fruit&#8221;?    If signal preempts only work in a very tight window, then better design is needed.   I long ago suggested to AC that at the very least they add prempt transponders to the non Rapid fleet so that any bus on equipped streets would benefit.  San Pablo, Shattuck in dntn Berkeley, Broadway, 11th, 12th prime examples.  Absolutely agree all routes would benefit from a thorough redo of downtown Berkeley.  I envision bulldozing the BART rotunda, straightening Shattuck (west) as the through bi directional street and taking the rest of the wide ROW Center to Allston for a real transit station.  THAT is where TVMs etc would be useful.  flattening the parking as far as Durant to make bus lanes there would also be highly useful&#8211;because so many buses pass through.</p>
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		<title>By: david vartanoff</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241516</link>
		<dc:creator>david vartanoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 02:20:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241516</guid>
		<description>@ dto510,  I was at one of the early scoping meetings for what has now become the BRT project.  The majority at that meeting (Berkeley Senior Center Hearst &amp; MLK)  were in favor of Light Rail.   So when AC proudly announced that after &quot;consulting&quot; the citizenry, they were going for what they used to call enhanced bus, I was not impressed.   So much for &quot;choice&quot;.   
In the early 90&#039;s AC had a study done on improving the trunk corridors.  
That study consistently recommended against diamond lanes and signal preempts while projecting highest ridership and fastest trips with LRT at cost per trip differentials as low as .06 greater than Busway (proto BRT branding) .    I conversely think giving the 1 R diamond lanes in rush hour w/ severe enforcement would be a much better $$/results mix and could be done much sooner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ dto510,  I was at one of the early scoping meetings for what has now become the BRT project.  The majority at that meeting (Berkeley Senior Center Hearst &amp; MLK)  were in favor of Light Rail.   So when AC proudly announced that after &#8220;consulting&#8221; the citizenry, they were going for what they used to call enhanced bus, I was not impressed.   So much for &#8220;choice&#8221;.<br />
In the early 90&#8242;s AC had a study done on improving the trunk corridors.<br />
That study consistently recommended against diamond lanes and signal preempts while projecting highest ridership and fastest trips with LRT at cost per trip differentials as low as .06 greater than Busway (proto BRT branding) .    I conversely think giving the 1 R diamond lanes in rush hour w/ severe enforcement would be a much better $$/results mix and could be done much sooner.</p>
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		<title>By: Drunk Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241515</link>
		<dc:creator>Drunk Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 01:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241515</guid>
		<description>David,
Headway out of downtown BART is less than 12 minutes for the 51(remember: other routes besides the 1 would benefit from exclusive lanes downtown). I also live along the 1 on Telegraph, and frequently see bunching for buses coming north -- as many as 5 buses at a time. That is 4 drivers who could have been driving neighborhood routes.

You are correct that the signal preemption doesn&#039;t really work right now for the Rapid. By design, signal preemption can only extend a green light (not &#039;override&#039;) -- and even then, it can only extend under the right circumstances. Thus, the bus has to arrive at exactly the right moment for preemption to work. This is where the main benefit of exclusive transit lanes comes into play -- because they allow much tighter scheduling so that bus arrival is synchronized for when it would benefit from the preemption.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,<br />
Headway out of downtown BART is less than 12 minutes for the 51(remember: other routes besides the 1 would benefit from exclusive lanes downtown). I also live along the 1 on Telegraph, and frequently see bunching for buses coming north &#8212; as many as 5 buses at a time. That is 4 drivers who could have been driving neighborhood routes.</p>
<p>You are correct that the signal preemption doesn&#8217;t really work right now for the Rapid. By design, signal preemption can only extend a green light (not &#8216;override&#8217;) &#8212; and even then, it can only extend under the right circumstances. Thus, the bus has to arrive at exactly the right moment for preemption to work. This is where the main benefit of exclusive transit lanes comes into play &#8212; because they allow much tighter scheduling so that bus arrival is synchronized for when it would benefit from the preemption.</p>
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		<title>By: david vartanoff</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241514</link>
		<dc:creator>david vartanoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Sep 2009 00:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241514</guid>
		<description>@ D E, and all,  While I cannot claim this time check didn&#039;t happen, I am skeptical because in my 30 + years of riding this route, I haver NEVER experienced 12 min of delay between Berkeley BART and Dwight except when the driver parked to wait for police to remove a problem rider.    FWIW,  Berkeley is refining its LPA for how to route the downtown segment, so  I remain agnostic on what that will be.   I should say,  downtown Berkeley needs major work starting with the rearrangement of Shattuck and  BART station access. 
 
 I explicitly spoke (speak) to the segment from Dwight/Tele to Tele/B&#039;way.   This route is closest to my home so I use it in preference to any other.  As such I think I have a fairly accurate picture of how it runs or doesn&#039;t.   In PM rush the SB clog is mostly cars heading to 24.  The alleged signal preempts for the R&#039;s don&#039;t seem to function in my experience so I wonder how they would work if actually in service.(and how much better the locals would be if they also were so equipped)    NB, my experience is clear sailing except for the Dwight/Bancroft segment referenced above.   As I am a non driver, I certainly want better transit, but having previously lived in several cities with same, I don&#039;t think paving two bus lanes on Tele is the answer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ D E, and all,  While I cannot claim this time check didn&#8217;t happen, I am skeptical because in my 30 + years of riding this route, I haver NEVER experienced 12 min of delay between Berkeley BART and Dwight except when the driver parked to wait for police to remove a problem rider.    FWIW,  Berkeley is refining its LPA for how to route the downtown segment, so  I remain agnostic on what that will be.   I should say,  downtown Berkeley needs major work starting with the rearrangement of Shattuck and  BART station access. </p>
<p> I explicitly spoke (speak) to the segment from Dwight/Tele to Tele/B&#8217;way.   This route is closest to my home so I use it in preference to any other.  As such I think I have a fairly accurate picture of how it runs or doesn&#8217;t.   In PM rush the SB clog is mostly cars heading to 24.  The alleged signal preempts for the R&#8217;s don&#8217;t seem to function in my experience so I wonder how they would work if actually in service.(and how much better the locals would be if they also were so equipped)    NB, my experience is clear sailing except for the Dwight/Bancroft segment referenced above.   As I am a non driver, I certainly want better transit, but having previously lived in several cities with same, I don&#8217;t think paving two bus lanes on Tele is the answer.</p>
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		<title>By: Drunk Engineer</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241513</link>
		<dc:creator>Drunk Engineer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241513</guid>
		<description>David V,
You are greatly underestimating the delays caused to 1R due to auto traffic. Moreover, late evening service is not the best time to measure this effect.

As an experiment, AC Transit measured delay to buses coming out of the downtown Berkeley area (BART station) headed south. During peak hours, it was often the case that by time reaching Telegraph, delays were already greater than the scheduled headway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David V,<br />
You are greatly underestimating the delays caused to 1R due to auto traffic. Moreover, late evening service is not the best time to measure this effect.</p>
<p>As an experiment, AC Transit measured delay to buses coming out of the downtown Berkeley area (BART station) headed south. During peak hours, it was often the case that by time reaching Telegraph, delays were already greater than the scheduled headway.</p>
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		<title>By: dto510</title>
		<link>http://www.abetteroakland.com/ac-transit-brt-project-in-jeopardy/2009-09-24#comment-241512</link>
		<dc:creator>dto510</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 23:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.abetteroakland.com/?p=3706#comment-241512</guid>
		<description>David V - While it&#039;s true that auto-related delays are a problem for the 51 route, that is not a reason not to do BRT on the Telegraph - International route. The main problem with BRT on the 51 route is that College Ave is too narrow to take a lane away. But there are other reasons why AC Transit and the East Bay cities chose the 1R route back in 2001(ish?) for BRT - it&#039;s has more potential for ridership gains and for transit-oriented development.

Drunk Engineer is totally right - AC Transit&#039;s biggest structural problem is that increasing congestion takes a toll on the bus service. BRT is the solution to that problem. Postponing BRT for a decade will only make the core system worse - capital funds are only a short-term band-aid if diverted toward operations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David V &#8211; While it&#8217;s true that auto-related delays are a problem for the 51 route, that is not a reason not to do BRT on the Telegraph &#8211; International route. The main problem with BRT on the 51 route is that College Ave is too narrow to take a lane away. But there are other reasons why AC Transit and the East Bay cities chose the 1R route back in 2001(ish?) for BRT &#8211; it&#8217;s has more potential for ridership gains and for transit-oriented development.</p>
<p>Drunk Engineer is totally right &#8211; AC Transit&#8217;s biggest structural problem is that increasing congestion takes a toll on the bus service. BRT is the solution to that problem. Postponing BRT for a decade will only make the core system worse &#8211; capital funds are only a short-term band-aid if diverted toward operations.</p>
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